Bearish on the Economy

[asim0v Profile]

The economy needs some help in TWiTCraft. There needs to be a way to generate wealth since shops are not buying. Let's start some brainstorming on how to kick the economy in the ass and jumpstart it!

I accidentally bankrupted someone today selling things to them. I've seen it happen to several other shops too. I'm sure shops are hesitant to buy because they see shop after shop being bankrupted. I am not buying anything in the Sky5 S-Mart for that very reason. Maybe the server shop needs to use the SignShop iSell sign, which will allow people to sell and remove that resource from the game. Prices will have to be closely monitored as to not create a glut of excess money, or maybe there should be a bit of a glut to start with.

[roadkill Profile]

A system where a wage is given to players based on there actual play time, this will stop people going bankrupt.

[jesskitten Profile]

Well there are a bunch of iSell signs in Twitmart, for example the coal/charcoal and redstone ones that are most popular.

I think there is a lot of money in the game, but a good proportion of it is concentrated in the hands of hoarders at the top who really have no reason to spend it on anything, but instead focus on chasing each other and holding spots in the top 5. And since a large proportion of the money isn't "moving around" because of that, it creates the impression that money is very much missing in the main economy. (Disclaimer in case people think my /money is affecting my point of view: I don't bother with that money race but I have enough to keep afloat and comfortably afford anything of note at the moment. I have just over 3000 coins and have been sitting right there for a couple weeks.)

I'm not sure all what money could be used for - will have to keep brainstorming this - but it has to be more than just plots of land in town. Being able to have multiple regions would be a very good start. But to end the money hoarding in the top 5, something that would be great to re-distribute the money could be along the lines of:

- A 5% tax on all accounts at the end of each week.
- Redistributing that money somehow (say a stipend daily to all players who have been online at least once that day etc).

That would also help claw back the part of the economy gone to people who do not log in anymore. But of course things like that would involve there actually being a plugin that does that, already existing. The only people I've seen who have put their gobs of money to real use is Teh_Rage with him and Drafalga opening the Flea Market and putting deals in his shop that will lose him money, on purpose, in order to draw traffic there.

Another thing I've complained about in the past is people randomly giving items away to each other for no reason other than "the person asked in chat" - I do that myself, and it is a nice thing to do, but ultimately it contributes to destroying the fluidity of the economy because everything can be gotten for free, thus no reason to visit shops. Note this is different from randomly giving gifts away if you like, but rather offering something for free to a person who is asking for a particular item in chat. Rather we should be directing them to the shops that do sell it and encouraging that use.

Perhaps we just need to put in some sort of more advanced economy plugin though. I noticed in a couple of the articles about Jeb's upcoming economy changes that people were heckling the changes and telling him to stick to more important issues like stable server code, because plugins that do such things have already been in the game and far more developed than the "rubbish" he was making - while I don't necessarily share that argument, perhaps we could look into some of those plugins?

[PumpHunter Profile]

Isn't the top 5 all moderators?

I think the server store should buy netherrack at 50 coins pr block - that'll solve the problem

[jesskitten Profile]

I don't think so, I haven't actually checked in the last couple days though. Top 10 then maybe, same different..

[PumpHunter Profile]

But seriously, I don't quite understand how (or why) Economies work on other minecraft servers - there is very little to sell, and it takes way to long to make any money - its like a second work - not that fun, is it

[asim0v Profile]

Well there are a bunch of iSell signs in Twitmart, for example the coal/charcoal and redstone ones that are most popular.

Where is Twitmart? Don't think I've ever been.

But seriously, I don't quite understand how (or why) Economies work on other minecraft servers - there is very little to sell, and it takes way to long to make any money - its like a second work - not that fun, is it

There is plenty to sell. Raw materials won't sell all that well unless someone is working on a big project and doesn't want to put forth so much time. Rare materials (diamonds, cocoa beans, discs, etc.) are also sometimes in demand - diamonds especially. And there's enchanted gear. I takes a long time to get some enchants with the random system. I would have purchased a silk touch shovel before starting Sky5 if anyone was selling. Course, I also started Sky5 the day after the server opened, so no one was selling silk touch shovels that I saw.

[jesskitten Profile]

Where is Twitmart? Don't think I've ever been.

That's that store nearest to spawn, when you /mvs, turn left and look at the cake trolley; on the other side of the trolley from the portal should be some iron double doors (just before you go down the road to Chad's). Some iSell and iBuy signs there - diamond prices still need to be made semi realistic, but the rest I think are semi decent (if not worth much besides coal/charcoal/redstone) - they also sell circle stone and cobwebs that are otherwise unobtainable on Survival maps.


I've had a couple people buy my discs early on, but even pricing them at 5 now they don't sell anymore. Same for slime, for the most part. A couple things do change hands sometimes but they're mostly the 1-2 coins type. Similarly the main things I've ever bought are lots of cobblestone, dirt and gravel to fill in holes for, and some sand and glass. And a silk touch pick.

[PumpHunter Profile]

But seriously, I don't quite understand how (or why) Economies work on other minecraft servers - there is very little to sell, and it takes way to long to make any money - its like a second work - not that fun, is it

There is plenty to sell.

I think I knew what was in the game before i said there is little to sell

[Goobler Profile]

I've made and lost quite a few fortunes, mostly in the seemingly dangerous diamond trade, I prevent myself from going broke by using the ever popular "junk in the trunk method" using junk to fill up places in a chest so you buy stacks and stacks. but yes things do need to be bought i mostly buy planks and smooth/cobble/stonebricks but have been known to buy other things of higher value :p. So the economy issue is like any other economy issue. money musn't be hoarded... it must be spent! so those that hang in the hoarder areas... take a week or day off from mining and build a fancy project. us shop keepers would appreciate that! :p btw i hover around 900-2000 coins though i have found myself empty before.

[duffjessica Profile]

I would be more than willing to pay taxes on my region as well as on my house in Sky5. so that's an easy twenty coin a day from me (ten per plot). I would buy and sell from stores more often to keep up on my taxes. bukkit uses the CashFlow plugin for taxes. I would also prefer the economy be based 1-1 on gold nuggets. That way we have a standard of what our money is worth.

[zman64 Profile]

duffjessica, you ideas seem good to me. I second them.

[duffjessica Profile]

I would also pay more taxes for a second region. I want to add my tree house to a region but already have the castle on one. The taxes I am willing to pay are all relative to how much I can make by selling in stores. We should also put a donation button on the mc.twit.tv page so we can donate real money. The money could just be a donation to twit like on the old twit.tv page but by clicking the link on mc.twit.tv we get a bonus to our balance like 2000 coin for 20 dollars american. Then you could make taxes higher and we would have more money to buy things from stores. At least I would buy more from stores if I had a way of getting more money in game.

[zman64 Profile]

I also wouldn't mine paying actual money like other servers do for both in game money and other stuff like kits or elevated privileges. I agree with the idea of paying taxes per amount of region held...both size and number of regions. Maybe have a default region size like there is now for a fixed tax, but have the ability to have bigger/more regions for a higher tax

[GordMcLeod Profile Website]

I think duffjessica may be on to something, but I wouldn't use gold bars as the standard. I say wait for the next big update when the villager economy opens up, and then base things on emeralds.

[BladeDK Profile]

I've only recently discoveret twitmart, and realised I could actually make money. So now that I've made some money, I've also started spending them..

twitmart needs better advertising, even though its right there at spawn.. Its hidden pretty good.

But lets face it, minecraft wasnt built with an economy in mind. Everybody seems to be selling the same things.. and nobody is buying (except twitmart).

The things I buy are slimeballs, and stuff from the nether that are hard to get.. (at least for me). I also bought a nice pickaxe, even though I had one that was better. But that was before I found out I could repair them.

btw, anyone wanna rent my skeleton farm?

[Demonfive]

Don't have the energy to write out a long post right now, but I want to let you guys know that we do care about these things. Myself, Curley, Chad, and the rest of the TWiTcraft staff regularly have heated, serious discussions about the state of the server. Currently, there is a lot in the works for the economy (Hopefully including plots/stores in Leoville sometime next week.) - new ways to make money, as well as spend it.

As for the idea of "taxes," I am very much against charging players for the use of a region. We gave players one region so that they may protect their build from the threat of griefing. We've talked about the possibility of buying a second region, and that's still a possibility. However, if town owners want to charge rent/taxes on plots in their town, they're more than allowed to do so. There's no reason to be operating a city at a loss.

On the topic of donations, we've talked about that as well, and decided it wasn't really moral/meaningful to accept donations. ServerCentral is giving us our amazing hardware for free, all of the software/plugins we use are free, and our staff all volunteer their time. Monetarily, TWiTcraft doesn't cost much to maintain, so any donations you gave us wouldn't really be helping the server.


There's probably other stuff I should write about, but I'm tired.