NightWorldSky [Update 2 Days]

[asim0v Profile]

[2 days] Circumventing the afk timer

As has been previously stated, circumventing the afk timer is covered under rule 6. Measures have been taken to remove the previously existing loopholes, but people are coming up with new ones. Bypassing the timer is still against the rules.

Video here.

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

And that explains why he doesn't respond even though I know he's moving when I try to talk to him during the day. I just thought it was because he didn't wuv the Poster. :/

Fail, sir.

[NightWorldSky Profile]

I am soooo sorry. I didn't know this wasn't allowed. I know so many people that did it. I am really sorry. I will take myself from TWiTCraft for a while so I don't bug you guys anymore :/

[NightWorldSky Profile]

I feel that if someone is banned fron TWiTCraft at least once, they are not worthy to come on again. I will resign from TWiTCraft. Thank you to all the people who delpt with me even though I was annoying and apperantly doing something wrong. Farwell TWiTCraft

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

It's nice that you feel that way, but I don't think you need to be that drastic. You've admitted you're wrong, sit out the ban, and come back in a couple of days. As long as you don't do it again, no one will hold it against you.

[Dio Profile]

[2 days] Circumventing the afk timer

As has been previously stated, circumventing the afk timer is covered under rule 6. Measures have been taken to remove the previously existing loopholes, but people are coming up with new ones. Bypassing the timer is still against the rules.

Video here.

The mods need to get over themselves. Do you really have nothing better to do then stalk people to make sure they aren't AFKing? Way to keep the server safe and fun. I've also never heard a mod announce that doing things to not AFK is breaking a rule. Hell, I know mods who have done it.

If this is the way Twitcraft is going to be ruled, it's not a place I want to play.

[Inertpyro Profile]

I wouldn't feel too bad. Durring the time when everyone was making iron grinders a lot of people were doing the same but for days on end. Including myself, although I haven't even used it in probably a month. I would say on the scale of things it's a pretty minor offense.

[DragonofHalo Profile]

I feel that if someone is banned fron TWiTCraft at least once, they are not worthy to come on again. I will resign from TWiTCraft.

Dude, overkill. Everyone makes mistakes, so please don't get so upset over it. I know that lots of people, myself included, like having you on the server and would really hate to see you go over a silly two day ban

[cschilly Profile]

Don't leave NWS!

[NightWorldSky Profile]

Asim0v - Can I even ask what macros is? Plus a simple kick would have been nice rather than a ban. I am not really using this for my "benefit" I make a lot if my iron into items and put them in spawn chests for others to use. I think you went too far, I know mods ( who will remain nameless ) that have used AFK machines. Can I ask what is so bad about someone trying to get some supplies? I mean really? Like dio said is this this really what you spend your time looking for? How is swimming in water gonna be soo bad to the server?

P.S. I have only done this a few times and was just gathering supplies for what was going to be an upcoming project.

I have said what I needed to say, thanks a lot Asim0v

[Timberwolf1777]

NightWorldSky,

First:

I feel that if someone is banned fron TWiTCraft at least once, they are not worthy to come on again. I will resign from TWiTCraft.

Dude, overkill. Everyone makes mistakes, so please don't get so upset over it. I know that lots of people, myself included, like having you on the server and would really hate to see you go over a silly two day ban

Dragon is right. If everyone who got a short ban then left , I (the only TWiT employee who actually plays on TWiTCraft) wouldn't have been on TWiTCraft since October. Bans aren't always about the individual players actions. Sometimes a mod makes a poor decision. Other times (like this case) they use a ban as a wake up call for the rest of us in terms of enforcing a change of behavior in the community. Asim0v was using your afk circumventing as an example for the rest of us to make it policy to now ban for this offence when they hadn't been enforcing it at all before. If you hadn't been the one used for this, someone else would have been. Several new afk circumventing designs are very similar to yours in the video and Im sure that it very well could have been anyone (including me) on this list. You are a positive member of the community. Please dont let asim0v using you as an example be the reason you leave us.

The mods need to get over themselves. Do you really have nothing better to do then stalk people to make sure they aren't AFKing? Way to keep the server safe and fun. I've also never heard a mod announce that doing things to not AFK is breaking a rule. Hell, I know mods who have done it.

If this is the way Twitcraft is going to be ruled, it's not a place I want to play.

Although Dio's statement is strong, Im inclined to agree. Many many many of us were using anti-afk machinces for months with no repercussions. Even the playing mods were in the loop and no one said anything. In fact, I would even share some of the design ideas with some of the mods. Defeating the plugin became a sort of game/challenge. Its always been against the rules but the other mods seemed to enjoy the game of it and the only thing discussed as bannable was the use of macros and leaving it running 24/7. Now, suddenly & with no warning, it is a rule that will be enforced via banhammer. As far as I understand, there was no player kick with a reason attached. The banhammer was used first and was chosen for use on NightWorldSky (who, although he has made mistakes, is one of the most kind & considerate youths on TWiTCraft and a valuable community member) as an example for the rest of us. This is a shameful act. Please consider wielding that hammer with a little less zeal.

[gregor1942 Profile]

night world sky bans are like going to jail you did something wrong you serve your time then you go out into the world. this isnt a Communist order were one strike and your out. notice the ban is only for two days that is like a speeding ticket. not a big deal if you dont speed afterwards

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

I have a feeling I'm going to regret responding to this, but I'm tired of rolling over. I'm not a mod, I don't want to be a mod, I'm not "in their pockets", and I'm not "brown-nosing" as has been suggested. They don't ask for nor require my defense. They could easily lock the server, whitelist it, and only allow a few players on. This is how I honestly view this situation having been a former mod on a TFC server in addition to a different Minecraft server (Never again - Playing daddy to a server instead of playing the game S-U-C-K-S!). Don't like my opinion/the facts I bring up? Tough.

I feel this was a fairly minor penalty for a fairly minor offense. I also know that we were warned not to engage in this behavior (circumventing server rules/plugins/whatever you wish to call them) in the aforementioned Server Rule #6, which we all agreed to as a stipulation for playing on this server, and were reminded of fairly recently. Just because it doesn't say SPECIFICALLY "<playername>, now don't you use an AFK machine to circumvent the autokick or we will ban you for X days :finger wag:" doesn't mean that the spirit of the rule is null-and-void. The mods have to walk a tightrope between explaining precisely what can and cannot be done and being very vague. Why? Because if you say, "AFK machines are banned," what are most kids on the server going to do? Look up what an "AFK Machine" is. After that, what percentage will secretly use them when they feel they can get away with it?

6. You’re not allowed to use Hacks, cheats or exploits to benefit you in the game. This includes but not limited to fly mods, fast mining mods, etc.

asim0v thought NWS might have been running macros, but that was not the impetus for the ban - The AFK circumvention was. This circumvention of the server policies, in this case the AFK autokick, was a direct violation of Rule 6.

"This includes but not limited to". Though this sentence is grammatically incorrect, its key point, "not limited to" is clear - Just because he exploited a flaw in the game itself as opposed to modifying his client doesn't mean he did not use an exploit to his advantage.

Let's say I approach a stop sign, see that no police officers are nearby, decide to run it, and don't get caught. You do the same a month later, not noticing the cop hiding in the bushes, and get a $200 ticket. Is the law that states that you cannot run a stop sign invalid because no cops were around to catch me a month previously?

No, it is not. Along the same line of thought, if no mod is there to catch previous offenders of a server rule the instant that they violate said rule, it does not make the rule invalid nor does it make the mods punishing violators of said rule the heinous authoritarians some have made them out to be. There was a rule in place, a player violated the rule in a minor fashion, a minor punishment was dealt, the end.

Should the rule be changed? Possibly - That's a debate for the forum post where we have been discussing AFK times already, in addition to the Town Halls. The fact that the poll about this issue has the "No Change" option as of this post winning by 4 votes and the subsequent lack of dialogue on the accompanying thread is telling.

Coming onto a post that is meant to be a simple record dealing with an infraction of a Server Rule as it currently stands is bad form. I don't think NWS is being made an example of, I think he's the first player to get caught by a mod after demon's post I linked to above was made. Overall, NWS has been a good player and one minor infraction will not sully the opinions of most if not all on this server. I sincerely hope that he'll come back in 2 days and continue to play on this server, a little wiser for the experience.

EDIT: Just in case you're curious, here's the results as of this posting:

[nfair Profile]

I'd like to get a clearer definition of "AFK" machines. A few months ago I asked if a powered rail loop was OK to use in order to allow furnaces time to cook. I was told directly by a mod that it was ok. However I suspect it's not OK any more.

If even a rail loop is now a bannable offense then the AFK timeout should at least be increased to more than 1,000 seconds (16m40s). That's how long a bucket of lava will take to cook all material in a furnace. Even before hoppers a furnace fueled by lava wouldn't be able to cook a stack of 64 (nevermind the 100 it's capable of) before the AFK kick happens.

[Inertpyro Profile]

What if I just sit watching TV holding down the space key? Or if I weigh the key down and Afk that way? It's not really a macro because a program isn't doing it. In this case a warning or some sort of official post or a more clear change in the rules would have been better. If you want to make it more clear add something in the rules about mine carts, water, other anti Afk methods, ect.

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

Let's move the discussion of what "AFK" is over to this thread here. I've been guilty of derailing too many threads lately.

[Timberwolf1777]

I get your point PA and agree. The specific issue I was discussing was not "breaking a rule and not being caught for a while ... and then suddenly getting a speeding ticket". (I love the analogy)

But to use your analogy what happened was this instead (for many of us) and it happened AFTER the rules post by D5 that u linked:

We read the speed limit sign and understood the rule. Then we noticed a lot of drivers driving 20mph over the speed limit with a cop sitting there watching and doing nothing about the speeders. He was often giving tickets for other violations or sitting at the side of the road joking with a fellow cop. We then ask one or both of the cops about the speeders and we are told: "Yeah, its no biggie. The posted speed limit here is not enforced. Just don't go over double the speed limit or drive recklessly and you will be fine. In fact its kinda fun to go 20mph over the limit." So some of us also start driving up to 20mph over the limit. We even hang out with the cops, maybe whiz by smiling while showing off a new sports car. One day speed bumps are added to the road to make it harder to drive fast but we still get no tickets for driving 20mph over the limit ... Then one day after all of this going on for a while, a cop shows up who hasn't been around for a while and starts issuing speeding tickets for going 20mph over the limit. No warnings. No posting saying "Even though we haven't been enforcing this rule, we will now start doing so. You have been warned."

Enforcing the rule is the right thing to do of course. We all should know the rules. I do think it sucks for NWS how it was handled though. Im glad to have the warning but not at the expense of NWS getting a ticket.

Thank was my point PA .... and just so no one else does it to me first:

(directed at my own story)

[VanteS]

I have unbanned NightWorldSky.

asim0v I think this was a bit too harsh a penalty without properly notifying the community that using afk machines will get you banned. NightWorldSky has been an industrious and enthusiastic player on TWiTCraft, the type of player we should be encouraging to play on this server.

Keep an eye out for a proper post on the forums regarding afk.

[t2t2]

Plus a simple kick would have been nice rather than a ban.

Just so it's noted originally it was just a kick, it was changed to 2 day ban after a comment by curley

[asim0v Profile]

This is the final thing I will say on the topic. Measures have been taken to remove some of the loopholes in place for circumventing the afk timer. It was stated on numerous occasions (including a live demonstration in one of the town halls) what exactly a circumvention device looked like and that it that its use was covered under Rule 6. Just because a rule was not previously being enforced is no reason to expect it to never be enforced.