Grand Compromise

[Robrotheram Profile]

my 2 pence worth is mostly the same as everyone else. I do have a bit of mc fatigue partly because all the builds I want to do I have done and the money race has never interested me. So a reset be nice I do think that adding Posters idea of adding some more interesting plugging to change game play be fun since twit-craft is nowhere near vanilla that this stage, I like the pvp idea but I do worry that pvp grefing will occur and increase with the idea of easy way of getting items, But instead if you get killed by a player you keep the stuff but say loose coinage instead of your hard urned items. Just an idea.

But any-case I think most people return to the same line "I don't care what you do to the world so long as my build / stuff will be saved" The problem always comes down to do we want to copy every single build people have done.

Speaking as head of DOT I like the idea of new cities and city themes I did hope that the DOT sub hubs would encourage builds around them but I think it was done to late with leoville being so established and where people are. In this new idea with stargates (which I love the idea) and horses the point of DOT will be less needed for which I be fine with,

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

Solution to the dying problem: http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/deathchest/. Griefing would still be bannable, so the temporary joy of killing someone for minimal XP only would be offset by the permanent ban. Yes, I'm saying that first offense griefing bans on this map should be permanent and a MOTD should make this abundantly clear upon joining the 1.7 survival map. This would curtail all but the most serious of griefers.

Build/item transfers: I have mixed feelings on this. Yes I'd love to transfer some of my larger works and keep my inventory. At the same time, I think starting from scratch has its benefits as well. At the end of the day, however, I think that most of the complaints would be offset if item inventories, like Timber's shops, were allowed to be transferred. Some say this would be unfair to new players, but if that were the case why is it not unfair that a player new to the current survival map doesn't have the same items as those who've been playing for a year? If it will allow this idea to progress and get everyone onboard for a transition, then I think it's worth it to allow item/money transfers.

D.O.T.: I think there will still be a need for D.O.T., Robro. Some players will want to build outside of towns and a nice highway system connecting all of the towns/points of interest would be handy. I'm sure that the Netherroad would need to be rebuilt as well. There would only be 5 or 6 stargates on the entire map - People will want ways to get to the points in-between. As we've discussed before, I think a nice horse+rider accessible beltway/highway around the entire map about 2500 blocks from spawn with main roads that lead out to the beltway in all cardinal directions would be a great project to undertake. The railways may not be duplicated, but players will still want an easy way to move their horses.

[gregor1942 Profile]

i like the idea of pvp. but only in a designated area (lets call it the aquadome) this would eliminate PVP griefing. because players on the aquadome arena floor would know that if they die then they either lose money or lose the stuff in their inventory. this would also give us new events we could do (gladiator games).

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

i like the idea of pvp. but only in a designated area (lets call it the aquadome)

One of the big problems we have is that few players want to work together for a common goal/good. My PvP proposal was my idea for fixing this issue - Do you have an idea that would accomplish the same goal? I'm wondering if anyone has any other ideas for this issue...

[Warriorbox Profile]

My idea is on the other thread, so I wont duplicate it here.

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

I believe this is what WB is referring to:

VanDerProtofsky and I were discussing one possibility last night....

Would we HAVE to expand the borders all the way around the current world? Suppose we just expand ONE border, say the north... to a length of a similar size to the current world... Just tack on ONE same size square in the new 1.7 landscape... then encourage anyone to build bridges, tunnels, lift systems or smooth out the terrain at the seam.

The stargate/portal/tp options (if/when a decision is reached) could still proceed, but we could also build an extension to the roads/rails going north into the new land straight north from current spawn.

One edge would be easier to manage than four. I would enjoy to build something to bridge the gap, and/or we could use beacons to clear or smooth the big step up or down, if that was the preference.

I could see this challenge appealing to the creative and amazing players we have, and one edge only wouldn't be as daunting as four.

Also, it would save dividing the community into two, with one group staying on Old Twit, and one moving to New Twit, or trying to divide their time between the two... we would have the best of both worlds. Still all together on Text chat, still in the one world.. just a new part of the landscape.

I think the main problem with this is that even a single side would require literally MILLIONS of block changes. Aesthetically, it would not look good. Now, ProtoVan suggested having a dividing chasm between the two to explain the terrain change and that might work, but it would only solve the new biome problem. What about the fact that everything is decentralized/builds are all over the place and there's no incentive to band together with other players?

Here's a similar idea: Take the "Old TWiTCraft" survival map, create a 20 block wide chasm across the entire north end of the map that goes all the way to the void (remove everything including bedrock, but allow water from the cutoff oceans + lava from the cutoff caves to create massive waterfalls/lavafalls into the void), create a SINGLE ornate bridge in the center that transports you to "Neo Leoville" on the other side of the map, have a well-planned Neo Leoville on the other side of the bridge, and have Neo TWiTCraft beyond the city limits as a PvP area. Can you use magic wand to select that large of an area and enable PvP if the server is offline temporarily?

EDIT: With this setup, you would have the town of Sheep Port right before the massive bridge. This would be a great final stop in the D.O.T. transportation system/a good stargate point.

[Warriorbox Profile]

I am not interested in PVP play on Twitcraft... If others are, and vote for it to be included, then fine, but I would not go to or pass though those areas where PVP is happening. That is just my preference. I don't like the idea of bands of attackers waiting outside my house, or lurking underneath it. I have enough trouble with spiders and creepers doing that. And at least they have no pretensions to intelligence. :¬)



Timber pointed out to me today that if we chose the northern edge of the map to make the addition, it would show very clearly on the dynmap, and some would consider that an ugly picture. Whereas if we chose the south or eastern edge as the 'seam' the terrain change would not be so obvious.

[Goobler Profile]

I just don't trust that stargates will be implemented.There I said it. We still have a population of people who get up in arms about anything "non vanilla" that is suggested even to cut down on things like transportation and as a way to centralize. Yes this server was started as mostly vanlilla and it is that way still but minecraft in the begging was not meant for multiplaying for extended amounts of time and we have implemtented various mods to assist with that. As far as a reset? I could live with that, I would like certain builds I've seen to move over (say public builds) I can understand Timber's points and perhaps a few folks share a similar view and I think some of that can be accommodated without making it too much of a hassle. As for the PVP why not make a seperate PVP server with different way points that could be designed by build competitions in advance. I'm personally not a fan of the server being full on pvp but if it is so I will probably just accept it. Also the making of mayors with various cities sounds great but it may end up spiraling into that person's own little kingdom and politics may arise also it comes down to who will be these mayors and why. I do believe the mods on this server could pick out a trusted players but i think that may arise to jealousy later on and also it may cause a split from the older community and potential new folks who start after the mayors have been selected. But as Vantes has stated, He is uncompromising in that he does not wish to allow personal builds to come over perhaps he will soften perhaps not but that seems to be biggest factor in this division. Sorry for being so long winded and taking random thought tangents .

[Timberwolf1777]

I just don't trust that stargates will be implemented.There I said it. We still have a population of people who get up in arms about anything "non vanilla" that is suggested even to cut down on things like transportation and as a way to centralize.

By "population of people" I assume you mean the old "moderators" who don't moderate (No I am not talking about Ipodparf, vantes, blender, or asim0v here. I love the work you guys do and a big THANK YOU every day for your consistent support of our community), who often act like trolls when they do show up, and who in general just prevent anything the community wants from being accomplished by wanting to do the big show of having "Authoritaay" (Cartman voice) and saying the big NO to any idea that the community of players (who actually play and use the server on a regular basis) want? There I said it. D5/ Cheeto/etc: If you are going to be a moderator and have a voice/vote, please do your job of moderating our community. Otherwise please resign. or be an admin. or whatever. Basically, if you are not going to participate in being a part of our community, then we don't want your opinions carrying weight of the what and how our world works.

[Goobler Profile]

I just don't trust that stargates will be implemented.There I said it. We still have a population of people who get up in arms about anything "non vanilla" that is suggested even to cut down on things like transportation and as a way to centralize.

By "population of people" I assume you mean the old "moderators" who don't moderate (No I am not talking about Ipodparf, vantes, blender, or asim0v here. I love the work you guys do and a big THANK YOU every day for your consistent support of our community), who often act like trolls when they do show up, and who in general just prevent anything the community wants from being accomplished by wanting to do the big show of having "Authoritaay" (Cartman voice) and saying the big NO to any idea that the community of players (who actually play and use the server on a regular basis) want? There I said it. D5/ Cheeto/etc: If you are going to be a moderator and have a voice/vote, please do your job of moderating our community. Otherwise please resign. or be an admin. or whatever. Basically, if you are not going to participate in being a part of our community, then we don't want your opinions carrying weight of the what and how our world works.

Actually I just meant anyone who say it, it wasn't directed at anyone or any group of people. I don't even know the reason why the stargates haven't been implemented on the survival server I just meant that there is some reason why it hasn't been implemented and I just don't believe that the reason would go away just so we could get a server reset.

[t2t2]

I just don't trust that stargates will be implemented.There I said it. We still have a population of people who get up in arms about anything "non vanilla" that is suggested even to cut down on things like transportation and as a way to centralize.

By "population of people" I assume you mean the old "moderators" who don't moderate (No I am not talking about Ipodparf, vantes, blender, or asim0v here. I love the work you guys do and a big THANK YOU every day for your consistent support of our community), who often act like trolls when they do show up, and who in general just prevent anything the community wants from being accomplished by wanting to do the big show of having "Authoritaay" (Cartman voice) and saying the big NO to any idea that the community of players (who actually play and use the server on a regular basis) want? There I said it. D5/ Cheeto/etc: If you are going to be a moderator and have a voice/vote, please do your job of moderating our community. Otherwise please resign. or be an admin. or whatever. Basically, if you are not going to participate in being a part of our community, then we don't want your opinions carrying weight of the what and how our world works.

>> Implying Demon5 cares about anything going on in twitcraft
>> Implying cheeto has said anything
>> Implying I have said anything other than doing stuff requested by active mods that need higher level of permissions (forum related / ingame when curley isn't available)

You can stop spreading FUD now

[Timberwolf1777]

T2:

First: although technically a "mod", I tend to think of you as "admin" so this doesn't quite apply to you
Second: Where the FOD is coming from is experience from trying to get proposals for important ideas enacted which is basically this:
1: Someone has an idea for the community good which will require mod/admin help or support we share via in game chat and forums (whether its stargates or making an area pretty or something else)
2: The whole community discusses it, takes time to find workable solutions which address everyone's concerns
3: Conversations with the active mods happen where we ask them for their concerns/thoughts/feedback and then work to address these also
4: A rough plan for the idea (that is basically approved by all active players/mods) is created, and a conversation with curley happens regarding his thoughts. He happliy expresses support (in a general way) for several ideas.
5: --Nothing happens--
6: Inquiries about why nothing has happened get passed to knowledgeable parties and we wait for a response.
7: We get a response saying something along the lines of "Not naming names but the idea was shot down by other decision makers because [it was not vanilla, it was decided that it shouldnt happen that way, etc etc] (aka) NO"

When time and again we have the vast majority of the active community of players and active mods and even curley on board with stuff and it still magically gets nixed, that tells me that there are somehow invisible, powerful, non-participatory, non-involved, basically uninterested in the welfare of twitcraft but love having the ability to say NO to stuff, people who are blocking every good community idea we have. All I ask is that people who have that level of decision making power either get involved with us on a regular basis so they can be a part of how this community develops and maybe discuss options for addressing specific needs in real time, or focus on the admin role of implementing fixes, or relinquish their authority over a world and community that they obviously have zero interest in being part of.

I dont know what else to say. Many of us are just so exhausted by it. I love twitcraft very very much but it needs some spicing up with some new elements/land/etc soon and with the current track record of ideas being constantly stalled by a group of decision makers we never see, many of us just feel frustrated instead of inspired and are grudgingly finding new places to go have fun.

EDIT: The reason that I bring this up now, on this thread is that despite our desires and ideas and conversations, I honestly expect 1.7 to come and go with no additional biomes/chunks, no world expansion of any kind, resource being the same as ever (except 1.7), no new spawn town, no stargates, no pvp arena, etc etc.. and again no real explanation as to why. I truly hope that this does not happen this way. I hope that our "government" can figure out how to work together and make decisions that will give twitcraft a little fresh blood and excitement.

[PosterAnonymous Profile]

*THAT'S* what the fox(wolf) say!






Seriously, though... I will speak up and join Timber in admitting that I'm frustrated as well with the lack of action. We've been slowly hemorrhaging good players for some time now because changes that need to be made have been put on the back burner. I'm not accusing any mod/admin of shirking their duties, but it annoys me personally when a group of players including myself hammer out an agreeable solution to an issue only to have it sidelined/vetoed with the blanket excuse of "it's not vanilla", if we receive a response at all.

"Vanilla" isn't working. We've lost some good players because of this and we're continuing to do so. This isn't just a Fall "Back to School" lull. Time to add some chocolate swirls, maybe some walnuts if you're into that sort of thing, some caramel, marshmallows... Something. It's better to try, fail, and learn from the experience than it is to leave things the way they are and let it all fall apart.

I saw more people on in a single channel at the same time in Mumble for last night's "crisis" than I have seen in months (and not talking about Feed the Beast the whole time to boot!) - Why is it wrong to want that level of participation when we're NOT dealing with some new/old drama?

[VanteS]

Just to be clear I am one of the strongest proponents of keeping things "vanilla", it is why I've spent so much time on the server. Lets not copy what other servers do like "drop parties" at spawn.

[nfair Profile]

I'd like to see a permanent survival 1.7 world, and there are some builds in the current survival world I'd like to see moved there if the current world is shut down (not any of mine, other people are much better builders). I'm even happy with an inventory reset of some type, I just want to see a new world with a few different "spawn" type locations. I really like the idea of a hub and spoke type system with portals between the hub (real spawn) and 4 new spokes. Not vanilla but it's not exactly Baskin Robbins + Coldstone Creamery + Ben & Jerry's + Pink Berry.

[VanteS]

I'd like to see a permanent survival 1.7 world... I just want to see a new world with a few different "spawn" type locations. I really like the idea of a hub and spoke type system with portals between the hub (real spawn) and 4 new spokes.

After the events of yesterday with a ton of diamonds spawned in it has caused me to double down on trying to convince everyone to reset the survival map or add a new survival map after 1.7 is released.

There are spawned in diamonds in play, there are still glitched blocks/items in play, the server is overrun with old and abandoned builds, a laggy Leoville is unwelcoming to many players, finding land to build on is extremely difficult for new players, once 1.7 is released we will continue to lose people who are expecting new biomes, clearly we have big problems.

My new proposal is to have a new Survival map for anybody interested in playing in once 1.7 is released. The "United we stand, divided we fall" argument is a non sequitur, the reality is united we fall, given the current drop in player population. Again after 1.7 is released player population will continue to fall without new biomes.

If we had a new survival map we could set it up from the get go with growth in mind, we would get players interested in new biomes and we can implement ideas that have been brought up like multiple spawn cities linked by stargates from the very beginning.

Inventories would not be linked with the current survival world, so it would give players a chance to start fresh.

[Timberwolf1777]

I really like the idea of a hub and spoke type system with portals between the hub (real spawn) and 4 new spokes. Not vanilla but it's not exactly Baskin Robbins + Coldstone Creamery + Ben & Jerry's + Pink Berry.

Nfair, nicely put

Just to be clear I am one of the strongest proponents of keeping things "vanilla", it is why I've spent so much time on the server. Lets not copy what other servers do like "drop parties" at spawn.

We know that you and asim0v have extremely different views on the way the world is/should be. This is a good thing. You are both almost yin & yang in that if we can get you both on board with an idea, it seems like a good compromise & the right idea has been reached. Personally I love a lot of the vanillaness of the server but I tend to think that some very lightly applied (just a couple stargates to move population from spawn or a resourse only /sethome) non vanilla solutions to transit needs would be a good solutions to, as much as possible, both respect the vanilla nature (DEAR GOD please NO drop parties at spawn!!) of the server and also provide solutions to population flow & land value problems. Im just confused that when the player community can even both of you on board, the ideas get shot down & stuff still just stays the same.

EDIT: Just read vantes's post: As I said, I'm down for a world reset/start fresh at 1.7 ... as long as I can keep my home. Im not even saying "stuff" just my house/region. If you are willing to copy and paste the citadel to the border of one of the new stargatable towns, and recreate the region around it (the region is used with a ton of flags that do a lot to hold it together ), I'll happily give up proximity to central spawn & be willing start from scratch in every other way. I'll also promise that as a part of payment for this boon, I'll immediately get to work (after making some tools & armor of course) on recreating the nether road system on the new map.

[Cheeetozz]

I just don't trust that stargates will be implemented.There I said it. We still have a population of people who get up in arms about anything "non vanilla" that is suggested even to cut down on things like transportation and as a way to centralize.

By "population of people" I assume you mean the old "moderators" who don't moderate (No I am not talking about Ipodparf, vantes, blender, or asim0v here. I love the work you guys do and a big THANK YOU every day for your consistent support of our community), who often act like trolls when they do show up, and who in general just prevent anything the community wants from being accomplished by wanting to do the big show of having "Authoritaay" (Cartman voice) and saying the big NO to any idea that the community of players (who actually play and use the server on a regular basis) want? There I said it. D5/ Cheeto/etc: If you are going to be a moderator and have a voice/vote, please do your job of moderating our community. Otherwise please resign. or be an admin. or whatever. Basically, if you are not going to participate in being a part of our community, then we don't want your opinions carrying weight of the what and how our world works.

lelelelelelelelelelelelelelel i haven't said anything. lelelelelelelel. listen timber, i've stood up for you a lot and all i get back from you is bs.

Exhibit A:

[G] VanDerProtofsky: any reason why a mod would just come in here, spawn loads of 'em and worldedit a chunk out?
[G] Timberwolf1777: Welll, read my forum post. thatr may explain it
[G] VanDerProtofsky: would be pretty childish if that was the reason
[G] Timberwolf1777: well no one said that the mods i complain about were actually adults

Exhibit B:

Timberwolf1777 issued server command: /modreq serious damage in this area caused by a wither spawned by cheetozzz

Exhibit C:

2013-09-09 19:11:52 [INFO] Timberwolf1777 -> FreonKnight: cheetozzz trolling griefing the whole server
FreonKnight -> Timberwolf1777: So... is anyone gonna roll back the damage or are we all screwed?
Timberwolf1777 -> FreonKnight: no idea. I havent seen a "REAL" mod on since that happened

I did nothing and your ignorance is showing...just a little bit.

I'm going to be plain here and will probably regret saying all of this publicly (even though it's been said for months privately among mods, not just me): Timber, you are bad and you should feel bad. You tried to leave the server before, and I begged you in your forum post to come back. I'm not sure I would do that again.

I'm too lazy to dig up Exhibit D-Z, but I think you get my point. For months you have mocked me for my age, you have been extremely rude to me, and have caused (or at least been a part) of 99% of the drama that has ever happened on the server. Sure, I'm sure you've done some good things too and many people will praise you for them. I'm sure you are a great person in real life. However, online you're simply (pardon my language) a dick

I'm sure my reputation is going to be even more dwindled by posting this. Whatever, yolo. Now back to doing more productive things like selfies and twerking.

[Timberwolf1777]

Thanks for knocking me down a peg Cheetozzz.

I definitely need it . All of the Exhibits here were directly related to the recent nastiness on the server and I believe that in my apology to you on another thread that I made yesterday without your asking:

I'll just take a moment to apologize here to Cheetozzz. It was not his fault. My sincere apologies for anything I have done to make cheetozzz feel that I am blaming him for a massive disruption to our world. I assumed at first that it was something that he caused due timing and to the initial jokey nature of some of the spawning I came across, and that the only person I have seen that had access to using chad's login on twitcraft was cheetozzz, and that cheeetozz logged in and out of mumble for 3 min right before we started finding wither spawn. I should not have leaped to the conclusion that he was to blame for the wither fight shown in the screenshots. Once it became apparent that there was massive damage to our economy introduced and several huge sections of the world removed via world edit, the "jokeyness" of the event vanished and it became obvious that someone was either upset or cruel. This was something that felt surprising. I would not expect any of this type of behavior from any of our admins/mods and I know that I was confused that someone with that level of access would do such a thing. My apologies again cheetozzz. No one should have been blamed. My only explanation is that we could not understand how someone with moderator privileges could be doing all that so I at first I assumed that it was another joke from the powers that be that have been known to do large scale jokes ... not a griefer who figured out an exploit to gain moderator status.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=876

I also addressed why I very wrongly initially assumed you had a part in it. My issues will stay, in this post exactly that: my issues. Again, my apologies.

PS: Oh and Exhibit C .... you are taking that personally. The "REAL" was a comment toward the unreal behavior of the omgchad "mod" acct and what at that point (I think we were chasing down rampaging wither number 2 or 3 in the overworld) seemed rediculously insane behavior from anyone. At that point, with that much damage something just seemed very very wrong. We had stopped fixating on trying to blame anyone specifically. In mumble we were also discussing how this behavior didn't make sense for anyone, even a raging mod, as all the acct was doing was making it difficult on his fellow mods.

[VanteS]

So back to the topic, when I rolled back the dragon damage last night this was what was returned:



Yesterday that chest was picked clean of diamond block and distributed to other players on the server.

I dont even