Wrapping up the loose ends
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Wrapping up the loose ends
by t2t2 » 12 Oct 2012, 22:03
So, it has come to this
While everyone else was posting their goodbyes or just throwing gifs in threads, I took the logs from curley and read through them. Note to self: 91 pages of logs? Never again. Also you guys write some really weird things in PM's (disclaimer: They are logged, we usually don't check logs but when we do we won't judge you).
After getting clarification from people who were online during the time, the following is log with only related items:
Considering the log, and other threads, the following decisions were made:
Timberwolf1777:
For violating rules 2 (Be respectful towards other players, Mods, and the server as a whole.) and 8 (Please allow our moderators to do their jobs) the user receives a 32 hour ban. As the user was already banned for 12 hours, this is removed from the length leaving the length of ban to be 24 hours as of this post. Note that this ruling does not include originally quoted rules 3 and 7. #3 doesn't count as end portal is not "owned by someone" as it isn't a creation that can be built by player. #7 is questionable due to lack of definition of build area (so this rule needs reworking, see bellow). Also we'd like to note that just blocking it off yourself shouldn't be the way to talk about choices done in game. In future we recommend a forum thread.
LeonimuZ
Note: By now LeonimuZ has decided to resign by himself.
Unfortunately the communication by mod Leonimuz with players was inadequate. As per logs, the communications were one-sided and non-responsive.
8 minutes after the ban was first clarification by LeonimuZ about the kicks & ban in the forum thread. In the followup post he finally included the rules broken according to him. Also in that he mentioned "I could have banned you permanently for just breaking one of those 3 and i preferred not to.". As per previous discussion in mod board (screenshot of the thread) bans of permanent length should be discouraged due to unlikely nature of need (especially as the first ban). After a response to that LeonimuZ decided to post a thread to appeals board and lock the discussion thread, which is a case of overzealous locking.
Since LeonimuZ decided to resign by himself, that is enough of a punishment.
Moderators in general
Discourage the use of infinity length bans. There are more periods than 1 day, 1 week and permanent.
The Rules
Because you guys updated the rules while I was sleeping and not able to review the rules before them going live, I didn't really bother deeply checking them. There seem to be some questionable rules and I shall post some proposals for modification in mod board by next weekend.
About cases where all end portals are outside world border
A thread will be posted to talk and vote about what should be done in that case.
Both players are welcome to come back and play on the server at any time (after ban lengths and all). To quote avarant, "this is a videogame, everyone needs to stop getting so butthurt on both sides".
Feel free to comment about this on this thread.
-t2t2
While everyone else was posting their goodbyes or just throwing gifs in threads, I took the logs from curley and read through them. Note to self: 91 pages of logs? Never again. Also you guys write some really weird things in PM's (disclaimer: They are logged, we usually don't check logs but when we do we won't judge you).
After getting clarification from people who were online during the time, the following is log with only related items:
Guide: [G] - global chat, [m] - mod chat, {Username} -> {Username} - private chat
2012.10.10 17:36:50 [m] LeonimuZ: zup ipod!
2012.10.10 17:37:11 [m] ipodparf: Timber obsidianed the end portal, removing it
2012.10.10 17:37:29 [m] ipodparf: Removing sign lock
2012.10.10 17:38:00 [m] LeonimuZ: ~_~"
2012.10.10 17:38:06 [m] LeonimuZ: really? like really?
2012.10.10 17:38:12 [m] ipodparf: Since it was a "Cheater Portal"
2012.10.10 17:38:19 [m] ipodparf: He made a post on the forums
2012.10.10 17:38:32 [m] LeonimuZ: ~_~"
2012.10.10 17:38:42 [m] LeonimuZ: good look trying to find the other one ~_~"
2012.10.10 17:39:03 [m] LeonimuZ: luck*
2012.10.10 17:39:15 [m] ipodparf: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=270
2012.10.10 17:39:54 [m] LeonimuZ: why did he do that anyways?
2012.10.10 17:40:07 [m] LeonimuZ: did he apologize or something?
2012.10.10 17:40:13 [m] ipodparf: He said only a couple people got to use it
2012.10.10 17:40:18 [m] LeonimuZ: SO?
2012.10.10 17:40:25 [m] ipodparf: Even though I bet he would have used the portal before anyone else
2012.10.10 17:40:29 [m] ipodparf: Yeah...
2012.10.10 17:40:32 [m] LeonimuZ: it was put there, and the world will get reset!
2012.10.10 17:42:19 [m] LeonimuZ: thats so sellfish man
(not logged) LeonimuZ kicked Timberwolf
2012.10.10 17:42:39 [m] ipodparf: Collaborate and listen?
2012.10.10 17:42:47 [G] Timberwolf1777: read my post
2012.10.10 17:42:59 [G] LeonimuZ: we're the ones who decide, not you
(not logged) LeonimuZ kicked Timberwolf
2012.10.10 17:43:07 [G] ipodparf: Is it bad I have ice ice baby stuck in my head now?
2012.10.10 17:43:15 [G] LeonimuZ: No, thats perfectly fine
2012.10.10 17:43:28 [G] PosterAnonymous: Word to your mother.
2012.10.10 17:43:32 [G] Sprocks59: i have stop hammertime stuck in my head
(not logged) LeonimuZ banned Timberwolf for 1 day
2012.10.10 17:43:37 [G] ipodparf: O_o
2012.10.10 17:43:46 [G] Boyus: WHAT?!
2012.10.10 17:43:47 [m] ipodparf: Woah
2012.10.10 17:43:58 [m] ipodparf: ... Mute shannon
2012.10.10 17:43:58 [m] LeonimuZ: come here
[...]
2012.10.10 17:46:05 [G] Boyus: So what was Timber's reason for the boot?
2012.10.10 17:46:17 [G] PosterAnonymous: He didn't bathe.
2012.10.10 17:46:27 [G] Boyus: makes sense
2012.10.10 17:46:53 [G] SecurityOfficial: what rules?
2012.10.10 17:46:57 [G] LeonimuZ: He probably got Haxxored
2012.10.10 17:47:05 [G] LeonimuZ: or H4xk3d
2012.10.10 17:47:19 [G] LeonimuZ: or any other leet speak way of saying hacked
Considering the log, and other threads, the following decisions were made:
Timberwolf1777:
For violating rules 2 (Be respectful towards other players, Mods, and the server as a whole.) and 8 (Please allow our moderators to do their jobs) the user receives a 32 hour ban. As the user was already banned for 12 hours, this is removed from the length leaving the length of ban to be 24 hours as of this post. Note that this ruling does not include originally quoted rules 3 and 7. #3 doesn't count as end portal is not "owned by someone" as it isn't a creation that can be built by player. #7 is questionable due to lack of definition of build area (so this rule needs reworking, see bellow). Also we'd like to note that just blocking it off yourself shouldn't be the way to talk about choices done in game. In future we recommend a forum thread.
LeonimuZ
Note: By now LeonimuZ has decided to resign by himself.
Unfortunately the communication by mod Leonimuz with players was inadequate. As per logs, the communications were one-sided and non-responsive.
8 minutes after the ban was first clarification by LeonimuZ about the kicks & ban in the forum thread. In the followup post he finally included the rules broken according to him. Also in that he mentioned "I could have banned you permanently for just breaking one of those 3 and i preferred not to.". As per previous discussion in mod board (screenshot of the thread) bans of permanent length should be discouraged due to unlikely nature of need (especially as the first ban). After a response to that LeonimuZ decided to post a thread to appeals board and lock the discussion thread, which is a case of overzealous locking.
Since LeonimuZ decided to resign by himself, that is enough of a punishment.
Moderators in general
Discourage the use of infinity length bans. There are more periods than 1 day, 1 week and permanent.
The Rules
Because you guys updated the rules while I was sleeping and not able to review the rules before them going live, I didn't really bother deeply checking them. There seem to be some questionable rules and I shall post some proposals for modification in mod board by next weekend.
About cases where all end portals are outside world border
A thread will be posted to talk and vote about what should be done in that case.
Both players are welcome to come back and play on the server at any time (after ban lengths and all). To quote avarant, "this is a videogame, everyone needs to stop getting so butthurt on both sides".
Feel free to comment about this on this thread.
-t2t2
- Timberwolf1777
Re: Wrapping up the loose ends
by Timberwolf1777 » 22 Oct 2012, 20:43
Finally looked at this post. I still check in the forums occasionally.
To Ipod,
Based on this assumption you made:
2012.10.10 17:40:13 [m] ipodparf: He said only a couple people got to use it
2012.10.10 17:40:18 [m] LeonimuZ: SO?
2012.10.10 17:40:25 [m] ipodparf: Even though I bet he would have used the portal before anyone else
2012.10.10 17:40:29 [m] ipodparf: Yeah...
I sadly see that you didn't really have my back on this issue. In fact, the only thing I said during this entire mess was "read my post". I know it doesn't matter now but I would NOT have used it. I would have protested vehemently to its creation. My original plan was to find the stronghold, mark it, and then wait, if necessary, to try to put together at least a 5 player group (hopefully more), to spawn as many dragons as possible and share the dragon hunt. This portal, made at all, and especially at the time of day it was, was a mess. I'm sad to find out this information especially after I gave you a stack of diamond blocks as a parting gift ...
To Ipod,
Based on this assumption you made:
2012.10.10 17:40:13 [m] ipodparf: He said only a couple people got to use it
2012.10.10 17:40:18 [m] LeonimuZ: SO?
2012.10.10 17:40:25 [m] ipodparf: Even though I bet he would have used the portal before anyone else
2012.10.10 17:40:29 [m] ipodparf: Yeah...
I sadly see that you didn't really have my back on this issue. In fact, the only thing I said during this entire mess was "read my post". I know it doesn't matter now but I would NOT have used it. I would have protested vehemently to its creation. My original plan was to find the stronghold, mark it, and then wait, if necessary, to try to put together at least a 5 player group (hopefully more), to spawn as many dragons as possible and share the dragon hunt. This portal, made at all, and especially at the time of day it was, was a mess. I'm sad to find out this information especially after I gave you a stack of diamond blocks as a parting gift ...
Re: Wrapping up the loose ends
by ipodparf » 22 Oct 2012, 21:16
The quote of "Even though I bet he would have used the portal before anyone else." was said because when the resource world with a resetting was announced, most of the comments I saw were "I'm gonna kill the dragon and get all the XP and steal the Dragon Egg for myself!" I wrongfully assumed that you were in the group. Looking back at it now, the way you stated your reason for closing it makes my assumption completely wrong. I guess the shock of a protest going to the length of a full lock down made me confused and upset, but soon after I realized if I had spent that time finding the portal I would have probably done something to that extend as well. If you ask Curley, I tend to say things like that and then not actually think that a few minutes later, my most famous one being - http://twitter.yfrog.com/z/mmlukop. I'm really sorry that you feel like I didn't have your back in the issue. I hope this explains the comment, and you can still be upset with me if you want to.
Sincerely,
iPodParf
Sincerely,
iPodParf
Twitter - @ipodparf
- Timberwolf1777
Re: Wrapping up the loose ends
by Timberwolf1777 » 27 Oct 2012, 08:08
Ipod,
I completely understand why you could make this assumption based on what you said people were saying. I'm not upset at you for this.
Everyone else,
This, however, is indicative of why I will not return to TWiTCraft. T2, when you quoted:
To quote avarant, "this is a videogame, everyone needs to stop getting so butthurt on both sides".
you are wrong. For those of us who play very regularly (all the time?), this becomes much more than a game. This becomes our access to a community of friends and a place to share, inspire, and be inspired. All of the Mods play less than a select few of us. Most Mods play much less. The realization here that the Mods are, to quote Curley, often "excitable," viewtopic.php?f=2&t=270#p985 and that they have the authority to be Police, Judge, Jury, and Executioner while goading each other on via emotion and assumption (as seen in the chatlog displayed in this post) reminds me of a dictatorship with poorly trained police. That they also have the power to permanently remove those of us who have literally invested months of our lives into TWiTCraft in a moment of "excitable" passion is insane. Especially when the rules are unclear and open to interpretation.
I still disagree with rule 2 being applied, as it is written. I always try very hard to treat everyone with respect. Even when I logged back in after my ban and people were PMing me with insults toward Leon, I remained respectful and wouldn't follow suit (check the chatlog). Nowhere in the rules does it say that every order a Mod gives from either logic or passion is to be blindly obeyed. If you would like to add that rule, or clarify rule 2, please do so. In this incident, I respectfully disagreed with a Mod, so I respectfully announced my intention to plug his poor decision in both chat and on the forum, then I respectfully ignored him when he got angry. I never treated him with disrespect. As for the server as a whole, I can see how plugging the portal could be viewed as disrespect. Although, the motive behind it was meant to be a repair of a bad decision and was not intended as such.
As for rule 8, please explain. If a Moderators job is to do whatever they want, when they want, and therefore we are not ever to take action in disagreement in game with them regardless of how poorly they behave, then ok. But please clarify this rule. Other than helping players who Modreq, preventing behavior with the intent to harm, and maintain and modify Leoville and the server architecture, I don't know what their Jobs are. Obviously I ran face first into this rule without understanding it. I can only assume it should be written: "Please allow our moderators to do their jobs: Don't alter their work regardless of whether or not it is a good idea. If they tell you to do something, do it. If you have a problem with a moderator's order or decision, please use the forum." or something like this. Again, the blind obedience that Curley said he sided with and is expected from players is not stated. I never blindly obey anyone unless I understand that that is what is expected of me in a given situation. It has never been clearly explained to me, since the beginning of TWiTCraft (my first Mincraft server environment), what the mod/player relationship is/should be. The rules are our only information.
The rules were insufficient to the task of letting me understand this. As the application of the rules was different between different Mods (Leon, T2) in the incident with my portal plug, there is obviously a need for clarification. Please alter the rules so that a player can know what is expected of him/her especially if/when that player disagrees with either what a mod says or does. As our mods are just as human as the rest of us, I expect this relationship to have more definition. You could make the argument that we should all automatically "know" this stuff, but thats a BIG assumption. TWiTCraft is literally the first environment I have ever participated in with dedicated "Moderators." Weird but true.
Just some food for thought. Again, the fact that this happened at all and that my name ended up on the dreaded "Plank of Shame" because of lack of clarity of the relationship and the rules, a bad mod, and my poor and frustrated behavior means I really wont be coming back.
-Timberwolf1777
I completely understand why you could make this assumption based on what you said people were saying. I'm not upset at you for this.
Everyone else,
This, however, is indicative of why I will not return to TWiTCraft. T2, when you quoted:
To quote avarant, "this is a videogame, everyone needs to stop getting so butthurt on both sides".
you are wrong. For those of us who play very regularly (all the time?), this becomes much more than a game. This becomes our access to a community of friends and a place to share, inspire, and be inspired. All of the Mods play less than a select few of us. Most Mods play much less. The realization here that the Mods are, to quote Curley, often "excitable," viewtopic.php?f=2&t=270#p985 and that they have the authority to be Police, Judge, Jury, and Executioner while goading each other on via emotion and assumption (as seen in the chatlog displayed in this post) reminds me of a dictatorship with poorly trained police. That they also have the power to permanently remove those of us who have literally invested months of our lives into TWiTCraft in a moment of "excitable" passion is insane. Especially when the rules are unclear and open to interpretation.
I still disagree with rule 2 being applied, as it is written. I always try very hard to treat everyone with respect. Even when I logged back in after my ban and people were PMing me with insults toward Leon, I remained respectful and wouldn't follow suit (check the chatlog). Nowhere in the rules does it say that every order a Mod gives from either logic or passion is to be blindly obeyed. If you would like to add that rule, or clarify rule 2, please do so. In this incident, I respectfully disagreed with a Mod, so I respectfully announced my intention to plug his poor decision in both chat and on the forum, then I respectfully ignored him when he got angry. I never treated him with disrespect. As for the server as a whole, I can see how plugging the portal could be viewed as disrespect. Although, the motive behind it was meant to be a repair of a bad decision and was not intended as such.
As for rule 8, please explain. If a Moderators job is to do whatever they want, when they want, and therefore we are not ever to take action in disagreement in game with them regardless of how poorly they behave, then ok. But please clarify this rule. Other than helping players who Modreq, preventing behavior with the intent to harm, and maintain and modify Leoville and the server architecture, I don't know what their Jobs are. Obviously I ran face first into this rule without understanding it. I can only assume it should be written: "Please allow our moderators to do their jobs: Don't alter their work regardless of whether or not it is a good idea. If they tell you to do something, do it. If you have a problem with a moderator's order or decision, please use the forum." or something like this. Again, the blind obedience that Curley said he sided with and is expected from players is not stated. I never blindly obey anyone unless I understand that that is what is expected of me in a given situation. It has never been clearly explained to me, since the beginning of TWiTCraft (my first Mincraft server environment), what the mod/player relationship is/should be. The rules are our only information.
The rules were insufficient to the task of letting me understand this. As the application of the rules was different between different Mods (Leon, T2) in the incident with my portal plug, there is obviously a need for clarification. Please alter the rules so that a player can know what is expected of him/her especially if/when that player disagrees with either what a mod says or does. As our mods are just as human as the rest of us, I expect this relationship to have more definition. You could make the argument that we should all automatically "know" this stuff, but thats a BIG assumption. TWiTCraft is literally the first environment I have ever participated in with dedicated "Moderators." Weird but true.
Just some food for thought. Again, the fact that this happened at all and that my name ended up on the dreaded "Plank of Shame" because of lack of clarity of the relationship and the rules, a bad mod, and my poor and frustrated behavior means I really wont be coming back.
-Timberwolf1777
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